Thursday, March 26, 2009

Real Men

I'm not a feminist. I believe in gender equalities. my idea about men was pretty limited to my dad specially since i have grown up in an all girls convent school and i didn't really have brothers as role models. and i must say i haven't done pretty bad myself, because my dad fits the role of an ideal man to me. i know, i know, you just be thinking " how obvious! Daddy's little girl.." etc etc no its not that, i have met friends who happen to be men and they seem well turned out as well. but of late the men i come across, friends and other Friend's boy friends, well I'm beginning to feel a lot disillusioned.. don't ask me why.. men that i come across are wimps, half formed personalities and a mere shadow of their mothers, and are too weak to handle. now now, don't get me wrong. I'm not against men here, just a few men who just are not able to be what they should be.

i mean when i think of the word man, the words that come to my mind are, strong, someone you can depend on, has a personality, can carry himself well,serious yet witty, sensitive and caring, thoughtful and interesting, is chivalrous and has manners. i have friends, both real and virtual, who embody all this and more. so i refuse to believe that real men doesn't not exist. we all know men are from Mars and women are from Venus, John Gray explains it quite well in his book of the same title. so i believe as a woman it is tough to judge men and vice verse. but then it is important to analyse men specially the one you are dating, because once you do, you know just why things are the way they are in your relationship.

see basically most girls have the same problems, he doesn't give me time etc etc... but then what we don't bother to find out is, most of these problems stem from ill formed personalities and deformed individuality. most men nowadays [my blogger friends excluded because, most of whom i read are prototypes of what i consider real men, at least they possess most attributes] are wimps and such big sissies. i ll state a few incidents, tell me what you think of my take on it..

I mean ya parents come first, i wouldn't hear any less but then if you are in a relationship, one that you have chosen, then why don't you have the balls to stand up to your mom for your girl? i mean yea your mom may have problems of sharing you with another girl, whom she considers a threat, if she cant understand you do, simple. but no, darling son will get manipulated and will never see the bigger picture. so the lesson, if you cant face your mom, then don't be in a relationship.

Everyone nowadays lives to work, or works to live; granted. but then if you cant balance work and your relationship, why get into one anyway? i have this girl friend whose boy friend hasn't met her in the last 4 months just because he is careerist and a workaholic, i mean WTF! good you are workaholic and ambitious but then why are you in a relationship? poor girl waits in hope when someday he will make time to meet her. mind you, they are from the same city. Real men take time out of their busy schedule even for a minute to drop an sms to their girls, but morons just don't bother and have excuses ready for not doing it.Balance is the key word, either prioritize your life or don't get into a relationship for which you don't have an aptitude.

Most men, are charmers, they woo their girl with flamboyance and love. but as years go by the unreal men tell their girls "5 years later what do you expect? the romance and all are a mere figment of imagination!" o really? a real man would make everyday okay not maybe every day, most days, a day filled with love. i mean why do you get into all that trouble of wooing the girl, when you will reduce her to a show piece?

Manners, when we were in school we were taught hordes of them. most men are not taught them but they turn out just fine but some "unreal" men are like pigs let loose on paddy fields. seriously. these men don't open doors for their girls, neither do they pull the chairs for her, they don't have table manners. sheesh! these men will walk right ahead, not caring if their girl is being cowered in a crowd, they wont think twice to walk with her and protect her from being jostled by the crowd. such men are truly disgusting! if you don't know how to behave in social circuits why don't just stay home! losers!!

But having said that i must say, the men i idolize or think are close to what i consider perfect in men, truly exhibit the qualities that most girls look in a man. my question to you is, for both for men and women is, what is your idea of a perfect man? or let me rephrase it. what are the qualities that men should have?

49 comments:

Harshita said...

I loved this post first of all...

After a long time something completely Raka-like has come on this blog ;)

I agree with you on all these pointers for sure...I think it is high time men wake-up to the reality that now, they also have to prove themselves for the world as well as their women.

Well, I donno abt perfect man as you asked here... but there is one thing for sure, if the person has no sensitivity towards other people's pain... he is out of my books. :)

MultiMenon said...

I am seriously confused now!!

Nikhil

Chronicwriter said...

raka talks philosophy... samik listens to this?


:)

www.chronicwriter.com

comfortably numb said...

Agree on most counts, yes.
one does need to honour a relationship..it shud not be for the sake of it.

яノςんム said...

u know all my answers to all your quests babes..

:D

loved ur post..

Jinxed Pixie said...

loved the post...completely..
and i agree with every word that you say...

ki said...

Chivalry, even in this age of gender equality, is something I'd like my man to have. I don't NEED to be paid for etc but him offering'd be nice. I agree with everything else that you've said though. Awesome post. :)

Btw, added you on Fb. :)

rahul said...

wow..long rant must say.

nice blog!!

ANWESA said...

Attributes of a man is analogous to a coconut-tough exterior with soft interiors.Thats it.

Aditi..............:) said...

Yeah I totally agree with you on this....but then girls who are with such men are also to be blamed a little bit...they have to get it striaght with them.....to carve out their identity.....they have to strive....

The Rat... said...

Exactly... u mirror my tots... as i always say "if u don't have d guts to say i love u face-to-face then y love at all"...

yamini meduri said...

welcome back Phoenix...i always liked your blog because u made a point in every post of yours....i know that u were out for a while..but then thanks for being backk..!!!

n abt the post...it really made sense...as a girl who still dont know much abt being in a relationship...i just got to know somehting defferent now...so i think i have to take care of this points..!!!

while reading the post..i had Samik in ma Mind all the while...so anything went wrong again u, his mom and his work???

nyways nice post dear..!!!

mayz said...

a guy seriously cant answer this post

Aghori said...

Well some men are wimps ... I agree ... not chivalrous ... I agree ... have bad manners .. so true .. not just towards women but towards everybody -- other men, kids, elderly, waiters, street-vendors, etc ... to be fair some women also have bad manners, but never to the extent of a "bad man"

what makes me really confused is women's apparent foolishness ... why do they put up with such bad men for so long ... in what hope ... why they want to play mothers (or maybe tamers) to these incorrigible dolts ... take the example of your friend whose BF didn't visit her for four months ... if you are not exaggerating, this says more about females than about males ...

but i have grave doubts about your version of the story ... do u really mean 4 months ... i have not come accross a girl who wud tolerate this for so long ... are you talking of a real person ???

leaving this doubt aside, do contemplate for a moment about female behaviour too ... females want the moon (not quite) from their men ... but they go ahead and choose someone who cannot even give them a candle ... and all this fully knowingly ...

i will come to desirable male behaviour later ...

Phoenix said...

@aghori

really this is the most silliest and ludicrious of comments i had least expected...

first of all... i am not exaggerating when i said my friends bf didnt get time to meet her for 4 months. like i said im not a feminist.. and i have nothing against men.. coz i firmly believe in equality... coming to my friend.. well her bf is a managing director of one of the leading IT firms and hence he keeps busy most of the times.. its not unheard of.. and why does she still be with him? well apparently she is in love and to her emotions rank far above then what she is getting out of it.. it is not an investment thing.. where she looks for her profit and if she suffers a loss she will walk out... most girls are like this... emotional fools you may call them... but unlike most men they value relationships not for what it can yield to her but for what it stands for her.. if she wanted just good things out of him then shouldnt she have just settled for a fixed target who didnt have to deal with such erratic time schedules.. but then we all know love and reasons to fall for someone due to lvoe isnt logical.. yeah you can say love is blind...

im really sorry to read what you just mentioned.. because you appear to be an MCP to me... its really hilarious to see how you dont recognize the source of problems but you blame the victim for enduring a problem.. funny really.. do you blame those killed, injured in the mumbai attacks for being innocent and unprepared for the terrorist attacks responsible for the massacre that occurred 26/11??

the problem that i choose to bring out wasnt about how bad men were and how one should walk out when such problems arise.. but it was to make people aware of existence of such men who behave in this manner which is not acceptable.. and the ways which they can improve.. no matter how good a person is [man/woman] there is always scope for improvement...

hereby i rest my case... :)

bondgal_rulz said...

Agree on all points except the last one....

The idea of someone holding a door for me, or pulling a chair doesn't exactly appeal to me...I mean it seems nice kabhi kabhi but not all the time...but table manners!! yes, he ought to have them. It is essential!

Great post as always. :)

Cheers

Phoenix said...

@mayank

i just wanted to know... what according to you are the qualities that a man should have... is it that tough to answer??

btw i consider you as an i deal too... because of what i perceived of you in our interactions.. so your opinion is valued... kindly answer.......

Phoenix said...

@yamz
no everything is fine with samik and me... these are a few things that annoys me not just about samik[who has a few traits such as these] but also men in general... :)

these are my insight or warnings to my single friends.. :P

Phoenix said...

@the rat
great minds think alike... :)

Notion said...

I just really think a man should be understanding, and great provider, know how to treat his woman, and have common since to teach his kids right from wrong

Phoenix said...

@aditi
i agree with you.. but then you know if you are in love and you are with him for a considerable amount of time.. it is however difficult to think ambitiously as you used to when you were single.. because once we finally relent and say yes.. we kinda give in to the person totally.. sad but true .. but in the first place why cant men try and behave.. and why should the girls suffer?? because i know most of the men are good.. but they are few... dont we deserve better? and why cant our men try and evolve.. thats my question.. not how can girls put up with the shit??

Phoenix said...

@anwesa
absolutely!! i agree :)

Phoenix said...

@rahul
im so sorry i bored you

Phoenix said...

@ki
thanks... yeah chivalry is getting lost these days.. and i miss it.. maybe im a lil old fashioned.. :)

will add you up for sure.. :)

Phoenix said...

@punya
:) hehe thanks :) good to knwo i have at least some people on my side..

Phoenix said...

@richa
hehahe i can totally guess :D :P

Phoenix said...

@comfortably numb
now see thats what i call a true gentleman.. i dont care of actually men evolve to be a good species but at least they admit to them being wrong or right..

i totally appreciate what you just said :) kudos!!

Phoenix said...

@chris
if only he acted on what he listened!!! :) :P but hopefully that is all about to change..

Phoenix said...

@nikhil
i must have over hyped my male blogger friends and their credibility.. coz two of my favorite men.. u n mayank have totally disappointed me... :)

Phoenix said...

@harshita

mwuaah!! mwuaaah!! if only you comment on my blog i'm willing to write and write and write.... im thrilled that you have finally consented to read and comment on my blog!!

dhanya ho harshi devi!! dhanya ho!!!

no seriously.. im glad you replied and you are my first today!!! thrilled totally!!

Phoenix said...

@bondgal_rulz
hmm yea i agree im not big on pulling chairs.. but table manners and being protective of ur girl is something i hold high on my list...

pisku said...

Lol.. u sure laid ur rules down didn't u?

Hmm.. why do i get the feeling the things u wrote are more an exception than the rule!

Phoenix said...

@pisku
well that's what you feel..and i have nothing to say that will make you see things in a different way...

however what i wrote on is not an exception..for i have at least 5 people saying the same things.. and most people agreeing to it..

exception are those men who according to me are "real" who are unluckily very few in number... ask a girl anyone who is in a stable relationship at least for an year..she will sa the same things that i am.. you can count on me on that...

Mahesh Sindbandge said...

I don't know what to say on such a post and that to after reading your reply to aghori.At least calling him MCP and taking this thing to mumbai attack seemed insane to me.

This is second post of yours( as for what i read in your blog ) against/about men.
I left a comment on that post ( the thing called LOVE? ) long ago, but not sure whether you noticed it..

Tell me exactly, where exactly its written that real men have this characteristics..?? I mean i dont know when they have included "serious yet witty, sensitive and caring, thoughtful and interesting" as real men's characteristics..
I doubt if army men can be considered as real men if one consider your sources..

This characteristics are more or less defined by girls itself i guess( I mean i haven't read it anywhere) its they who expect their man to be like that( FYI its not wrong to expect it like that ) and everyone has their own idea of a dream man. So it comes down to what you prefer and what you don't...
i doubt if one can find such nature wala man for one.. a difficult choice..

World has changed a lot and things have changed a lot and indeed men and women have changed keeping the basics same as before. In fact i say, its the atmosphere and people among which you grew up make you...

Not every child grows up very well, not every child gets what he needs...In few cases, its their past that makes them tough or taken otherwise makes them different from what they are...

We are human beings right? even men are...
Men think from head and women think from heart...
So for obvious reasons, they are different from what girls are and from what they expect them to be..

The people you talked about in pictures are rare diamonds to find, if that is what is expected, then i am a wrong person to answer that question...

One fact you should agree to,that girls have high expectations when compared to guys in many senses.

I don't have any specific interest for men/women when it comes to this kind of post and i make sure i see them equally no matter how close they are ..
I was being honest here, unlike others who just for the sake have commented.My comments were purely meant for this post and nothin else...

Thats just my viewpoint...

No Offence Meant Phoenix...

JoHn @ blogger's paradise ... said...

nice post...loved it....
however i dont happen to really agree with your point of "strong men".
u say about men being weak..is it that those who break down , who shed tears, who vent out..does this qualify them as weak? your post didn't really explain it. personaly i think one doesnt need to be stoic always to emerge strong...men are humans too...am not a mcp, neither a feminism-propagonist..m all for equality just like you said at the beginning of the post...and i totaly agree with ur rest of the points..i agree..and indeed there's a heady mix of 'real men' and simply 'men' in this world...
but indeed, "definitions of real men are purely subjective..."
and its all about adjusting...ideals are the prototypes...reality communicates...

Phoenix said...

@Mahesh Sindbandge
i never said these are THE characteristics to define a man.. i said these are my parameters to define man... never have i said i represent the views of the female population.. i have maintained these are MY opinions and that i am willing to be critiqued and corrected... and the excerps i have put up are also in part derived from my personal experiences [read: i am in a stable relationship for the last 5 years, incase you didnt know..]

and as for the mumbai attacks... i was stating a fact... why blame the victims/ or the one who has to put up with men who are wimps, as the one who is perpetrator.. is it then the fault of the girls for bearing what they do because they could leave? if it is, then there is one thing to say, thank god we women don't leave every time we realize things are not the way it should be.. because then there would be nothing such as stable marriages or relationships...a lady knows how to compromise and adjust... what i stated were some atrocious habits that SOME men have and not Most men... because i have great faith in Men species... as stated seeing my Dad and some of my guy friends i am convinced that good men exist among the morons.. i guess you guys.. who are up and against me, just seem to have missed the mark...

and 1 more thing..highlighting a small example that i choose to elucidate a point... and calling it insane.. seriously is insane.. the point is i am not against men, and as stated these are my views of men, i know i maybe wrong.. hat is the reason why at the end of the post i have asked YOU for YOUR definition or your thoughts on men.,..kindly read and comment...

thank you...

Phoenix said...

@JoHn @ blogger's paradise

you know i have always maintained even to my guy, being honest about yourself makes you strong... to me if a guy breaks down and cries, or tells me full on "im insecure of you for so and so.." personally i will respect him more.. you know why? because he is brave and honest about his emotions... it takes guts to express yourself.. to be you.. how many men can do it? not many... so i am all for expression!! and trust me it makes men stronger.. after all we are supposed to be better halves right?? so dont we deserve some honest emotions? that way we know we are loved as well.. sadly i dont think most men will agree to me about expression thingy.. but anyway im just proud my guy is straight forward and honest about his emotions.. good or bad .. happy or sad... :)

i hope i have been able to answer you??

and the definition of real men being subjective... i totally agree.. and that's why i asked YOU to give your inputs of what YOU consider "real men:" :D

Phoenix said...

@Mahesh
there was a few other things i wanted to tell you.. only if you dont consider this a fight okay?

you said women have high expectation of men.. dont you think our fathers,men too, set high standards for us? when we are in a marriage or a relatioship.. dont we have some NEEDS the reason i used the word NEED and not expectation is... men have set needs, which we fulfill or try to..women however have different needs... and these are a few things she needs.. most women take what they get... some question it before taking... call us fools? yes maybe according to you.. but not really...

army men.. do you think they are devoid of wit humor and sensitivity?just coz they are trained to be strong and less emotional bcz of their job? if yes then im sorry if only you saw the episodes of Barkha DTUTT And the Indian army.. then you will be shocked that army men have all the attributes of wit humor and creativity and sensitivity..except they are hardened and conditioned not to let that effect their mindset...

and the men of whom i put up pics being rare diamonds.. look cant we girls crave and wish for the diamond? just think if your sister was getting married wouldnt you have wanted the best for her? i know there is nothing called IDEAL/PERFECT i dont crave for that... but if i have a certain flaw in me.. wouldn't i evolve or at least try and accommodate my gf/bf's views and try and act on it? because i know i will.. if i love my guy then i would try to better myself if only my relationship would improve.. i remember my guy telling me, you have a really quick temper and i know i tried hard and now i can proudly say i have my temper in control.. i could have easily said I AM WHAT I AM, TAKE IT OR LEAVE, or WHY SHOULD I CHANGE, YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH ME, TAKE ME AS I AM... its funny i could say these things but i wont, because if i adjust adn make the right changes and if my relationship benifits from it.. why wont i do it?and im doing it for the one i love right?

but maybe you are right and i agree to it men are from venus and women are from mars... thats why you guys think with the head and we from the heart and maybe there is no solution to this problem... judging my the reactions of most men.. it is the women who needs to stop questioning what she is getting and being quite about it... coz men ..most of them... would not want people questioning them, their aptitude to giving the supposed loved one what they deserve.. but like you implied... women must walk out and not bear such wimps.. maybe we all should all do it..let marriages and relationships fail..coz such men exist in abundance and then maybe men will move out of the male dominated patriarchal mind set and will understand the silent accommodations and the sacrifices that a woman makes on just in real but of those wishes and desires that we cant express or we are forced to throttle..due to social conditioning... and the few good ones remaining will mourn the loss...

no offense here...

Harshita said...

@Raka
Oye Raka...mere pataakhey... I do comment... sob sob... :(

And I read you everyday religiously... ;) Devi!!

Mahaul badaa garam garam hain... ;)

Actually I think, you made many ppl think abt it...some are scared to realise tht world has changed and some have accepted whole-heartedly...

I appreciate the post and your viewpoint. Everyone has a viewpoint on the basis of their experiences in life and I respect that.

Way to go gal!!

Aghori said...

@Phoenix

I should admit I am taken aback by your outrage. My criticism was academic not personal. I never meant to say that you lied or (perhaps as you interpreted) always lie or 'you' have bad manners. And there was never any name calling from my side.

I expected a more academic response.

Anyway good luck !!

stay beautiful !

Aghori said...

On second thoughts I should clarify one point even at the risk of repetitiveness (if at all) or preachiness.

'apparent foolishnes' is not the same as foolishness. 'average default behaviour' of men and women alike are shaped by the evolutionary past of our species. this 'average default behaviour' is not set in stone, but is a gentle 'push of tendency'. much like the acquired 'cuisine preference' most of us have due to our upbringing in 'our milieu'. it doesn't forces us to perish if we do not get 'our food', just makes us 'tend to prefer' what we call 'our food'.

this default tendency that most men and women have looks like foolishness in the modern 21st century world for which we were not designed. but this should not be confused with 'intellectual foolishness'. as far as I have observed, women and men have no differences in 'intelletual capability' -- and I should know it coz my profession is mathematics, where it is claimed with numbing frequency that women are weaker. in fact, there are women friends who I reckon to be better than me in my own profession and it is a delight to talk to them.

men also do have these 'apparent foolishness' in plenty. most men are also madly in love (with women of course). most men (also women) love their nation, religion, language etc to the point of 'willing to fight and sometimes die'. come to think of it are these causes really worthy of violence ?? but in some circumstances it does make sense, though I again have grave doubts whether such 'societal constructs' (as opposed to familial and blood-lines) should be considered as more valuable than life.

Now please this should not be misconstrued as abandonement of nationality (or worse) perpetaration of treahcery.

Raising an academic doubt is NOT tantamount to insult.

Stay beautiful !

americanising desi said...

men are such remarkable creations of God, all women wanna rely on em and be taken care of by em and then you know give them what they need at whichever hour it may be...
but then... i wonder where the MAN, with his natural essence disappeared to!
good post phoenix :)

americanising desi said...

men are such remarkable creations of God, all women wanna rely on em and be taken care of by em and then you know give them what they need at whichever hour it may be...
but then... i wonder where the MAN, with his natural essence disappeared to!
good post phoenix :)

Phoenix said...

@mr aghori

your views are yours to endorse and its on me to discard them if i please...

personal insult or not... i dont appreciate your comments at least on my space.. kindly refrain from it...

Phoenix said...

@harshita

my harshi baby is the best!! no wonder i love you so very much!!

mwuaah!! mwuaah!!

*hugzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

Phoenix said...

@americanising desi...
aaa MEN we cant live with them or without them..sigh! :)

Mahesh Sindbandge said...

Ayyo..someone took my comments really seriously i guess...I m glad you tried your best possible to justify the points...
Yes i agree that u stated ur view as urself and that is waht i emant it too..that its a matter of waht u prefer and what u dont..
I didnt mean that one should leave one whever u like to..
i was stating a way one can approach a problem by saying that instead of complaning about such wimps, its always better to walk out sometimes....
At at times, we need to think from mind than heart right? other wise our love for one looks stupid sometimes...

i am nowhere against you and neither i really take sides....Just that i had this in mind to know whether its ur perception about men or just few men. May be to me the title seemed too absurd...it carried a different meaning from the message your post carried... Hope u r getting my point...

Thanks for responding to me...
NOM again..

cheers...

Mahesh Sindbandge said...

No ..i ma not considering it as a fight in any sense..

Ayyo..i dint really expected that you will bring father-daughter relationship here...

I hate one talking about such relations as i know how badly a girl goes through when a selfish father for his peace's sake does things to his own daughter.
Anyways leave that matter...

context was only this men-women love thing...
By needs i meant time,care etc things girls have generally..
I know even men have needs to be fulfilled which are far different and may be more in number compare to what girls need.
One thing i know really about few men is they dont like one depending on them too much( i dont know whether its bad or good..but it si that way u see) and i feel women should do something in order to be independent all the time..

I already stated before that your title is misleading in few ways...
So no point in talking about army men cuz i tried to say other things that were taken for granted in some sense ( the parameters u defined earlier)

Yes i agree..that everyone ahs their own dream men and women...so talkign about it wrong...I just said that if everyone considers real men like that, then to nikal padi....
Ayyo again u r throwing emotiuonal atyachar at me...i have sisters and i am quite responsible and concerned about it. Please dont make me realise this again :) Humble request to you raka...

Same case here...I ma changing myself in amnyways to get attension and make someone fall in love with me.
Changing my behaviours, not thoughts..
Thats not possible i guess..
LOVE?? OMG its such a thing which needs just appreciation not debate like this....

Thats all i have as of now..

Now enough of discussions...wish peace to both of us...

I wish if u could visit my space soemtime and leave ur golden thoughtss there too...:)

Peace matters...

Cheers

Sumit said...

just happened to see this post of yours and remember having a conversation with on similar lines with roughly the same time frame. Anywyz, what you are talking of here is more or less the ideal man. Now let me be frank, they do not exist!! The ones whom you consider ideal, definitely have certain faults about them which make them less than ideal. Faults which which perhaps only the ones closest to them could find out.

I know of a certain charmer who is a charmer, chivalrous, a harmless flirt, supposedly a good personality, talented, sophisticated, well-mannered and definitely has a good taste in just about everything. Sounds ideal?? This is the part of him almost everyone would see. Once in touch with him, ladies have remarked favorably of him. Yet, his faults are quite a few. A procrastinator, lazy, fickle minded, though emotional, sensitive n sincere for him to stay enamoured with one woman is quite impossible. Ideal man?? Think again!!